[Deltasierra]

"I reckon the problem would be fixed if they programmed more FWD at start-off based on playing around with what's available in the ASI suite screen. In particular the LOW FRICTION START. Then go back to the ASI powertrain graphic and watch the power distribution. There is loads of drive to the front and the take off is so much smoother. OK i realise that the throttle response is more subdued but the problem is alleviated. "

I did look into this curious how they managed to divide the power front to back electronically, as far as I can tell they DONT and the dash display is entirely an electronic simulation. It has no connection to the torque vectoring that operates the braking during cornering, the low friction start is most likely a throttle restriction, any change in the display is simulation.

The centre diff is a Torsen C as used on the Audi Quattro and others ( not Q7) which divides torque by a set proportion i.e.: 60/40 or 70/30 according to its specification. It is entirely mechanical and its effect will vary according to manufacturing tolerances and temperature, problem cars probably have a very stiff or even seized centre diff that winds up in corners. We have a Defender, if you forget to disengage the centre diff lock you don't notice until you make a sharp turn.

As for a solution, Jaguar have told you to pi$$ off and live with it, all you can do is fit all season tyres that will be more flexible, any brand that has the speed and weight rating to suit.

It took quite a lot of searching to find how the AWD system operated, if I have come to the wrong conclusion please explain how it does operate.

 

[Jim]

Deltasierra, I was under the impression that the power to front and rear axels was variable dependant on conditions, etc. from somewhere about 90% to the rear to 50/50 rear to front, as per the link below.

https://www.jaguar.com/owners_international/all-wheel-drive/index.html

 

[Jagfpacejk]

It is time that Jaguar engineers stopped burying their heads in the sand by declaring that any problems users find with the F Pace are CHARACTERISTIC S OF THE VEHICLE. Engine vibration, leaking differential casings, driveline vibration, infotainment, shutlines, creaking rear coilsprings, etc. All bad design or untested products. by whom. The Engineers of course.. Get real guys & girls.

I agree, but to agree to an issue would mean they did something wrong and they will not do that, you have also missed the 4 zone climate control which really is a rip off as its only 2 zone.

 

[June16]

"I reckon the problem would be fixed if they programmed more FWD at start-off based on playing around with what's available in the ASI suite screen. In particular the LOW FRICTION START. Then go back to the ASI powertrain graphic and watch the power distribution. There is loads of drive to the front and the take off is so much smoother. OK i realise that the throttle response is more subdued but the problem is alleviated. "

I did look into this curious how they managed to divide the power front to back electronically, as far as I can tell they DONT and the dash display is entirely an electronic simulation. It has no connection to the torque vectoring that operates the braking during cornering, the low friction start is most likely a throttle restriction, any change in the display is simulation.

The centre diff is a Torsen C as used on the Audi Quattro and others ( not Q7) which divides torque by a set proportion i.e.: 60/40 or 70/30 according to its specification. It is entirely mechanical and its effect will vary according to manufacturing tolerances and temperature, problem cars probably have a very stiff or even seized centre diff that winds up in corners. We have a Defender, if you forget to disengage the centre diff lock you don't notice until you make a sharp turn.

As for a solution, Jaguar have told you to pi$$ off and live with it, all you can do is fit all season tyres that will be more flexible, any brand that has the speed and weight rating to suit.

It took quite a lot of searching to find how the AWD system operated, if I have come to the wrong conclusion please explain how it does operate.

It's Electro Hydraulic
ELECTRO-HYDRAULIC TECHNOLOGIES
To transfer torque from one axle to another, the system uses an electro hydraulic multi-plate wet clutch, controlled by a centrifugal electro-hydraulic actuator. Together these technologies shift the precise amount of torque needed in as little as 100 milliseconds. Even a full shift of power from 100% rear to 100% front takes just 165 milliseconds, and happens seamlessly. All the driver notices is outstanding handling in conditions any other car would find challenging. The hydraulic system has the added advantage of generating less mechanical wear and so requires less maintenance than other systems.

The issue with tyre "skipping" is that traction is not lost on the rear therefore it will not be transferred to the front.

 

[Deltasierra]

I did not find the Electrohydraulic link previously, it all sounds very impressive, if it is so clever reacting 100 times a second, why can't it be programmed to eliminate the tyre skipping, or is it the control computer malfunctioning as the ICTP does. Or even is the skipping linked to the ICTP problems, neither of my cars with standard ICT ever had a problem.

 

[June16]

Here's the link
https://www.jaguar.co.uk/about-jaguar/all-wheel-drive/idd.html

System is called IDD
About 4 mins into this description

Plus they do recommend winter tyres

JAGUAR APPROVED WINTER TYRES
For optimum grip on a range of challenging winter surfaces, your Jaguar Retailer will be able to recommend and supply winter tyres* designed to meet the high performance requirements of your Jaguar. Manufactured from materials for use below 7°C to minimise wear and maximise grip, they feature 1,500 sipes (grooves) to repel snow, water, ice and slush. Compared to standard tyres, stopping distances can be reduced by up to 59%.

*The features and services described may be optional and dependent on what is available in your market.

 

[47jag]

June,

I see in a previous post that you have been accused of being a Jaguar employee which you have denied, fair enough, but you certainly come across as a Jaguar apologist. You do seem to be reluctant to accept that Jaguars can have problems as in this case due to a crappy tyre fitment. I personally think they should be recalled as unsuitable for the UK market. "They are not recommended for use below 7 degrees C". That would be about six months up here in Scotland (9 months if you base it on last year).

The drive train video was interesting, being able to do all those adjustments at lightning speed. However my/our complaint is it can't correct a problem at walking pace because of the luck of the draw with what tyres are fitted to our cars. I noticed that the tyres that Andy was extolling the virtues of were Continentals, he cant be accused of telling 'porkies' as it seems that no one has experienced 'our problem on a car so equipped.

The attached video casts doubt about the claims you posted regarding Winter tyres.

While it cannot be argued the will give better braking and steering in snow I have found that ice is the 'great equalizer' when it comes to winter driving. IMHO unless the tyre is studded it will be just as useless as a summer tyre on ice. I base this on my driving experiences during 13 Canadian winters. According to the attached video the performance on wet and dry roads can actually be inferior to summer tyres and that the best of both worlds is (for us in the UK) is to use an All Season tyre or the new Michelin Summer Bias All Season. I can relate to that as on my previous XF i fitted Nokian All Season tyres and used them all year. I thought that were great no matter what the weather.

Art

 

[June16]

June,

I see in a previous post that you have been accused of being a Jaguar employee which you have denied, fair enough, but you certainly come across as a Jaguar apologist. You do seem to be reluctant to accept that Jaguars can have problems as in this case due to a crappy tyre fitment. I personally think they should be recalled as unsuitable for the UK market. "They are not recommended for use below 7 degrees C". That would be about six months up here in Scotland (9 months if you base it on last year).

The drive train video was interesting, being able to do all those adjustments at lightning speed. However my/our complaint is it can't correct a problem at walking pace because of the luck of the draw with what tyres are fitted to our cars. I noticed that the tyres that Andy was extolling the virtues of were Continentals, he cant be accused of telling 'porkies' as it seems that no one has experienced 'our problem on a car so equipped.

The attached video casts doubt about the claims you posted regarding Winter tyres.

While it cannot be argued the will give better braking and steering in snow I have found that ice is the 'great equalizer' when it comes to winter driving. IMHO unless the tyre is studded it will be just as useless as a summer tyre on ice. I base this on my driving experiences during 13 Canadian winters. According to the attached video the performance on wet and dry roads can actually be inferior to summer tyres and that the best of both worlds is (for us in the UK) is to use an All Season tyre or the new Michelin Summer Bias All Season. I can relate to that as on my previous XF i fitted Nokian All Season tyres and used them all year. I thought that were great no matter what the weather.

Art

Art,
I can assure you with my engineering knowledge JLR probably couldn't afford to employ me, plus I wouldn't ever want to work for such a shoddy outfit. I have already rejected two Landrover Discovery Sports in two years before venturing to Jaguar. I'd like to think this car will last a bit longer, we will see.

My background was initially in aircraft engineering, motor Engineering then electronics and finally IT, but I'm now happily retired and still young enough to enjoy life.
I was by the way born and brought up in Aberdeen and have spent some of my younger years driving in Norway.

90% of cars sold nowadays come with summer tyres, yes you'd expect an SUV to possibly have a choice of tyre, but I don't think it's a big deal that it doesn't. Perhaps also because I checked which tyres it would be delivered with.

The best tyres for summer are a summer biased tyre , the best tyres for cold /winter driving below 7degrees are winter tyres. All seasons traditionally are a middle ground tyre, the exception being the new summer biased cross climate from Michelin and its new summer biased Continental cross equivalent; neither of which are making sizes to fit the FPace 19" and above , I have written to them both about future tyres and got a "we cannot advise on our future products or tyres at this moment " answer.

The tyres capabilities are not related to the manufacturer but to the compound of which the tyre is made, this directly relates to the amount of grip the tyre can provide at various temperatures. A good example is the Pirrelli P Zero , it is A rated for wet, however that is wet and above 7 degrees. It would be far less efficient at stopping in the wet below 7 degrees, because it's construction properties mean that it becomes harder and inflexible. This is the same inflexibility which causes the tyre to skip and jump at lower temperatures.

The Pirelli skips more than the Continental? Yes probably does, the Pirelli tyre traditionally also lasts longer than the Continental in mileage...because it's a harder compound, plus you'd have to take into consideration the tyre size too.

Ice is another condition to take into account, there are winter tyres that cope better than others on ice without studs. But some conditions do dictate studs , unfortunately in the UK even up north you'd be changing your tyres far too often if you went down that route due to current regulations for studded use.

The video illustrates the diffferences in the tyres, you would thus have to select the correct tyres for your own circumstances, there is not a one size fits all for the UK, each individuals driving requirements make a difference.

Maybe I just fail to see why after spending a large sum on a (sports) suv some folks quibble about the most important safety item on the car; the tyres. It's not as if you loose money swapping your summer tyres off in the winter, it extends the life of both sets, 6 months each set a year.

June 16

Ps
I also put Nitrogen in my tyres
https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/how-to/a3894/4302788/

 

[JAGFlubster]

June,

I see in a previous post that you have been accused of being a Jaguar employee which you have denied, fair enough, but you certainly come across as a Jaguar apologist. You do seem to be reluctant to accept that Jaguars can have problems as in this case due to a crappy tyre fitment. I personally think they should be recalled as unsuitable for the UK market. "They are not recommended for use below 7 degrees C". That would be about six months up here in Scotland (9 months if you base it on last year).

The drive train video was interesting, being able to do all those adjustments at lightning speed. However my/our complaint is it can't correct a problem at walking pace because of the luck of the draw with what tyres are fitted to our cars. I noticed that the tyres that Andy was extolling the virtues of were Continentals, he cant be accused of telling 'porkies' as it seems that no one has experienced 'our problem on a car so equipped.

The attached video casts doubt about the claims you posted regarding Winter tyres.

While it cannot be argued the will give better braking and steering in snow I have found that ice is the 'great equalizer' when it comes to winter driving. IMHO unless the tyre is studded it will be just as useless as a summer tyre on ice. I base this on my driving experiences during 13 Canadian winters. According to the attached video the performance on wet and dry roads can actually be inferior to summer tyres and that the best of both worlds is (for us in the UK) is to use an All Season tyre or the new Michelin Summer Bias All Season. I can relate to that as on my previous XF i fitted Nokian All Season tyres and used them all year. I thought that were great no matter what the weather.

Art

I do love the way that anyone who dares actually give a somewhat balanced or pragmatic view of Jaguar and/or their car is viewed as some kind of pariah and clearly a JLR plant.

There is no doubting that some people have been treated very poorly (probable understatement) by JLR and are quite rightly angry and as a result feel that this forum gives themselves the opportunity to vent their anger at all times and across any topic.

However I suspect that a fair number of forum members and readers are actually quite happy with the car. This is most likely because they have been fortunate enough to have a car that hasn't had any problems. I would be interested to know what the stats are in this regard. Clearly JLR have had some major issues (across the board from quality control to post purchase customer service), but it would be interesting to see how may cars have actually been affected. Maybe there is some kind of poll for forum members to think about here.

I for one love my car. Every time I get in I have a huge smile and I enjoy driving it. I have a couple of niggling problems with it, but nothing that takes away the driving enjoyment. My dealer is prone to being a bit shit at times, but I generally have a huge rant and they come around eventually.

In saying all of that, my car is going in for the H056 recall and the V3.5 upgrade in a couple of weeks. I have been assured that this will take care of the niggling problems referred to above. However, it is entirely possible that actually it will just turn my car into a four wheel ZX81 (without the 16k memory expansion pack) and all bets are off. Rest assured that at that point I will turn into a angry oldish man and will come on here and vent repeatedly.

Flub!

ps. I really don't get this summer tyre thing. Cars have been supplied with summer tyres for as long as I can remember. Likewise I have been having to fit winter tyres when driving down to the alps for as long as I can remember. We have one bad winter and suddenly car companies should be fitting winters and/or all seasons instead. We live in a temperate climate. Generally a summer tyre will do the job down south where I live, and to be honest its been ok this winter too. I just sometimes have had to drive carefully. I fully appreciate that further North this may not be the case and actually should be rethought. However, until the law changes and stipulates Winter rated tyres during the winter months, I cant see any reason for Jaguar (or any company) to change their policy.

I suspect that the other point here is that presumably the tyre companies are complicit in this too (Conti and Pirelli in the case of F Paces). By supplying summer tyres to Jaguar, they then get to sell winter rated tyres as well. win win! perhaps they have done a deal with Jaguar to supply a summer tyre at a slight discount.

Perhaps the real point is that a 4x4 doesn't guarantee traction whatever the conditions and needs to have the appropriate footwear in cold weather. This is no different to any 4x4 and indeed any other car. We have a house in Switzerland and will often borrow a 20 year old Toyota Corolla for bombing about the village (c. 1600m). On proper winter tyres it really goes anywhere.

pps. Have I lit the blue touchpaper?

 

[Jags cat]

Hi all,
Being an engineer myself both in aircraft, and currently automotive crash development based,.... I found myself wondering!!!! , In all of the development testing that allegedly went on with this vehicle,..... and given that they, (JLR) knew that this modified XE platform was going to be used on the Velar also,

What tyre manufacturers did they use for winter tyres in the artic proving grounds ? My suspicions are they were probably not the 22" wheels used, or in fact even if 19 or 20 " were fitted with studded tyres they were also probably not the same width of tyre found on a summer equivalent. We see the beautiful adverts of it power- sliding around a frozen ( snow covered) lake at 80 mph, but where are you going to do that in the UK. Would of been better to see if it could cope with 1" of snow on the beat up A 303 at 7 mph on summer tyres for a test IMHO!! ,anyway....

I understand everyone has their point to make here, and quite rightly too as this is what the forum is supposed to be for. But before we knock every other bugger around the head and question either their intent or knowledge of engineering !!! ,.......
Let's be clear about the common issue, Most if not all of the electrical and mechanical issues currently being suffered by F pace and now sadly Velar owners are down to the fact that a multi million pound development programme was not fit for purpose, and / or that the many faults currently being experienced by owners were not correctly in identified or investigated further before the vehicle went into production! ,......The answer is really that simple I'm afraid to say!

Regards JC.

 

[catwoman]

Have I lit the blue touchpaper?

^ . . . not sure, time will tell, but you've certainly written the longest 'p.s.' we've ever seen on this forum! . . :lol:

I agree with your general sentiment here, well-said Flubster, from another one of the happy ones.

We've tried polls on here in the past about levels of owner satisfaction; good idea, feel free to give it a go, but they don't seem to really get anywhere because the forum consists of a self-selecting audience which is not truly representative of all F-Pace owners out there.

( . . . by the way Flub!, you're not a 'JLR plant' are you?) . . . . jus' kiddin' . .

 

[June16]

Hi all,
Being an engineer myself both in aircraft, and currently automotive crash development based,.... I found myself wondering!!!! , In all of the development testing that allegedly went on with this vehicle,..... and given that they, (JLR) knew that this modified XE platform was going to be used on the Velar also,

What tyre manufacturers did they use for winter tyres in the artic proving grounds ? My suspicions are they were probably not the 22" wheels used, or in fact even if 19 or 20 " were fitted with studded tyres they were also probably not the same width of tyre found on a summer equivalent. We see the beautiful adverts of it power- sliding around a frozen ( snow covered) lake at 80 mph, but where are you going to do that in the UK. Would of been better to see if it could cope with 1" of snow on the beat up A 303 at 7 mph on summer tyres for a test IMHO!! ,anyway....

I understand everyone has their point to make here, and quite rightly too as this is what the forum is supposed to be for. But before we knock every other bugger around the head and question either their intent or knowledge of engineering !!! ,.......
Let's be clear about the common issue, Most if not all of the electrical and mechanical issues currently being suffered by F pace and now sadly Velar owners are down to the fact that a multi million pound development programme was not fit for purpose, and / or that the many faults currently being experienced by owners were not correctly in identified or investigated further before the vehicle went into production! ,......The answer is really that simple I'm afraid to say!

Regards JC.

Totally agree on lack of testing, seems endemic across the range. We are mere Beta testers for the first couple of years.

I can answer one question for you though.
The tyres used on winter testing are the winter tyre: Continental Winter Contact TS 850p
http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Continental/WinterContact-TS-850-P.htm

But no idea on wheel size, poss 20" ? so some wheel gurus are needed to identify.

EDIT : must be 20 or less as the tyres doesn't come in 22" size?

 

[catwoman]

Good catch June16, yes, those look like they're the 20" 'Venoms' . . although can't say I'm especially a rim guru !

 

[June16]

Good catch June16, yes, those look like they're the 20" 'Venoms' . . although can't say I'm especially a rim guru !

You are now :lol:

 

[Jags cat]

As a sad sad sod, that spent many an hour on the configurator pages in 2015 / 16 trying to create the best beast I could afford,..... OK,...OK .... so my wife actually paid for it!!

I concur that they are venoms🤓

JC.

 

[colin perry]

I'm one of the very satisfied new FPace owners - my Racing Green 3 S with most extras has been near perfect for 6 months - just a software niggle on the radio. Happy with 20" wheels and standard tyres. All passengers have commented on the soft ride and so many people stop and admire ..... it's the fabulous Racing Green finish - like another comment I smile every time I climb in - and I'm 70+

 

[JAGFlubster]

Have I lit the blue touchpaper?

^ . . . not sure, time will tell, but you've certainly written the longest 'p.s.' we've ever seen on this forum! . . :lol:

I agree with your general sentiment here, well-said Flubster, from another one of the happy ones.

We've tried polls on here in the past about levels of owner satisfaction; good idea, feel free to give it a go, but they don't seem to really get anywhere because the forum consists of a self-selecting audience which is not truly representative of all F-Pace owners out there.

( . . . by the way Flub!, you're not a 'JLR plant' are you?) . . . . jus' kiddin' . .

Dammit Catwoman!! You are a wily feline! ...you have seen through my ruse! My real name is Amelia von Flubster and I work for Jaguar CS in Austria :lol:

Flub!

 

[JAGFlubster]

Have I lit the blue touchpaper?

^ . . . not sure, time will tell, but you've certainly written the longest 'p.s.' we've ever seen on this forum! . . :lol:

Happy days! As they say, biggest is best!

Flub!

 

[catwoman]

Dammit Catwoman!! You are a wily feline! ...you have seen through my ruse! My real name is Amelia von Flubster and I work for Jaguar CS in Austria :lol:

:lol: :lol: aah, easy to see what you're doin' there, that old double-bluff technique . . ya think you're clever, but you've been rumbled !! . . :lol: :lol:

 

[JAGFlubster]

Actually I work for Cambridge Analytica and I'm just spreading "alternative facts"

Flub!