Jaguar and Land Rover cars recalled for excessive CO2 emissions

Faults and Technical chat for the Jaguar F-Pace.
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SRE
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Re: Jaguar and Land Rover cars recalled for excessive CO2 emissions

Post by SRE » Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:57 am

I had a look a Topix, nothing about any Outstanding Campaigns/Recalls against my car even though my Vin is amongst the "iffy" ones. However 103A is still shown under Outstanding Campaigns.
In Spain Santorini Black 2018 Prestige, AWD, Diesel, Elec Front & Rear Seats, Nav, Front & Rear Camera's, 10 Spoke wheels, Tinted Glass, Spare Wheel, Remote rear Seat release + a few other bits that bump the price north a tad.


June16
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Re: Jaguar and Land Rover cars recalled for excessive CO2 emissions

Post by June16 » Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:05 pm

A bit more info on the diesel recall here too if anyone wants to read about the changes intended.

https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/ ... ons-recall

Excerpt
JLR has made it clear to owners that the recall will not affect power outputs and has released information about what side-effects to expect. On gasoline cars, the stop-start function might operate at lower engine temperatures. Diesel cars could get noisier on cold-starts and could idle at lower revs at junctions. JLR also said owners of diesel cars could see higher consumption of the AdBlue urea additive that reduces exhaust NOx levels. JLR said that “all of the changes have been reviewed and agreed with the VCA,” meaning the certification agency is happy the cars will return to the agreed certification figures.

The side-effects admitted by JLR are likely to mean the recall will impact the owner experience for those cars affected, Greg Archer, UK director for pressure group Transport & Environment, said. He said that T&E engineers concluded that stop-start operating at lower temperatures for gasoline cars could lead to a delay in the catalyst getting up to temperature after a cold start. “That could have a knock-on effect on NOx and emissions,” Archer said.

Lowering the idle speed on diesels is likely to be a simple fix to drop the fuel consumption by a few grams, but that could affect drivability of the car. “Manufacturers don’t like their car to idle at excessive revs, because it raises CO2, but there is a limit to how far you can bring them down. Too low and the car starts to sound rough and it affects drivability,” Archer said.

JLR disputed Archer’s claims lowering the idle speed will mean that the cars will be trickier to drive. “The reduction in idle speed is not going to introduce any drivability concerns,” the company said in a statement. “The engine management system ensures that all of the required anti-stall devices are employed to mitigate any drive take-up engine rev deficiency.”

Archer said the rise in AdBlue consumption is likely to be related to the fact that JLR will reduce the amount of exhaust returning into the cylinder via the exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) valve, which helps limit NOx but also increases fuel consumption. The reduced effectiveness of the EGR to reduce NOx. means the car’s SCR filter has to work harder and will consume more AdBlue. JLR declined to offer an explanation as to why the cars will use more AdBlue.
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Jagfpacejk
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Re: Jaguar and Land Rover cars recalled for excessive CO2 emissions

Post by Jagfpacejk » Wed Mar 20, 2019 10:11 pm

Good spot of the article but i did smile to the end of the article,

JLR’s move to return the cars to their official recorded figures means the company is expected to avoid fines or lawsuits related to the fact that customers were sold cars that emitted more fuel than advertised, and that governments were missing out on higher tax income because the higher CO2 moved the cars into higher tax thresholds.

“It would be much easier to change the CO2 value, but if they would admit the original CO2 figures were wrong then drivers could claim compensation for that,” Archer said.

So not done for any other reason then stopping a law suit like VW ect have had.
Ex Owner of a Pre Launch 1st Edition Supercharged V6 and a Ex Owner of 1st Edition Diesel V6


June16
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Re: Jaguar and Land Rover cars recalled for excessive CO2 emissions

Post by June16 » Thu Mar 21, 2019 3:14 pm

That’s how I read it , nothing to do with customer care .
MY18 Rsport 25t BRG , Ebony - Oyster, 18 way mem, Surround Cam, blis, ICTP, LED adaptive....etc


Jagfpacejk
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Re: Jaguar and Land Rover cars recalled for excessive CO2 emissions

Post by Jagfpacejk » Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:37 pm

June16 wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 3:14 pm
That’s how I read it , nothing to do with customer care .
:lol: :lol: :lol:
Ex Owner of a Pre Launch 1st Edition Supercharged V6 and a Ex Owner of 1st Edition Diesel V6


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Reggraham
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JLR Recall

Post by Reggraham » Sat Mar 23, 2019 9:51 am

I have just received my latest alert from PetrolPrices.com and this week in the alert was an article detailing the recall of vehicles by JLR because they don't meet there emissions targets. It affects all diesel and petrol vehicles built between 2016 and 2019. The comment I didn't like was that after the fix by JLR which obviously requires a software update to the engine ECU the customers may not be happy about their future performance.

I am not sure if my vehicle is included as it came under the new real world test scenario but if it is I for one will not be allowing the dealer to do the update why would I want to have my vehicle downgraded just to make a minor change in emissions.

This is not the first time I have heard of Jaguar finding a problem and arbitrarily applying a fix and upsetting customers, in North America on early XF's there were a lot of reported problems with voice control, probably an accent thing, so Jaguar instructed dealers when vehicles were in for service to disable voice control much to the disgust of many owners who weren't experiencing problems. It was from that I learnt what was required to enable voice on many JLR vehicles.

I have added the article below.
It never rains but it pours … and Jaguar Land Rover must be breaking out their Sou’westers right about now; in January of this year, they announced 4,500 jobs were to go, the following month they posted record quarterly losses and more recently, it’s been found that a number of their vehicles don’t comply with stated emissions.
44,000 vehicles, all using the 2.0 litre engine (both petrol and diesel) have been found to be producing a higher level of carbon dioxide (CO2) than certified through the Vehicle Certification Agency, but this isn’t a new Volkswagen-style scandal, it was JLR themselves that found the problem and reported it.
Change in overall vehicle experience
Currently, the Jaguar Land Rover engineers are working on a fix, but it’s not straightforward – some models will need a software update and reprogram, other models will need mechanical work to help them comply, and it’s thought that some Range Rover Evoque models will also need new tyres.
A Jaguar Land Rover spokesman said “Vehicles are being rectified to ensure that the correct CO2 performance is dependably achieved. All modifications will be free of charge, and every effort will be made to minimise the inconvenience to our customers”.
However, there’s a final line missing from that quote, and it’s perhaps the most important; “Some owners may experience minor changes in the overall vehicle experience”.

Of course, we’re all too familiar with the Volkswagen scandal; it’s perhaps this very issue that has highlighted car manufacturers “interpretation” of vehicle emissions and compliance, but what hasn’t been quite so widely publicised is the effects of the ‘fix’.
Around 41,000 UK Volkswagen owners are part of a class action against the manufacturer, claiming that the emissions fix has severely affected their car – starting difficulties, loss of power, weak acceleration, poor fuel consumption and mysterious rattles have all been noted since the fix. Could this be part of the “change in overall vehicle experience” that Jaguar Land Rover is hinting at?
Any automotive engineer with an understanding of fuelling will tell you that changing the fuelling will, of course, change how the vehicle behaves. The fact that diesel Volkswagens were so powerful compared to the competition obviously came at a price – that they couldn’t comply with legislation, and when they were de-tuned to comply, it created a different driving experience.

The JLR problem
Until it’s known just how serious the problem is, it’s hard to gauge the effect of any fix to the fuelling strategy may have.
We do know that JLR didn’t set out to cheat the Vehicle Certification Agency, it was through their own routine testing that they found a problem, so mechanically, the engines are designed to deliver an expected output with a set amount of fuel. This means that they haven’t been designed & engineered as higher performance engines.
This (in theory), should mean that minor changes are possible with a ‘re-map’ without having too much a detrimental effect on performance or general running. We also know that JLR has said that some affected models may need mechanical work – the assumption being that these have been engineered to deliver slightly higher performance levels, so in this case, it’s entirely possible that an owner would have a very different experience.
The models affected are all manufactured between 2016 – 2019, that use the 2.0 petrol and diesel engine, and include some models of the 2016 – 18 Land Rover Discovery & Discovery Sport, a number of the Range Rover Evoque, Sport and Velar and the Jaguar E-PACE, F-PACE, F-TYPE, XE and XF.

Legal obligation
If you think that your car may be one of the models affected, your local dealership will be in touch to confirm the recall, you don’t need to do anything right now. We’d also point out that until a specified fix has been issued, and the results are known, it may be worth waiting to see how other customers find the repair, should you find yourself on the wrong end of a poorly running car.
We’d expect the situation to be the same as the Volkswagen emissions repairs, with no legal obligation to have your car repaired. It’s possible that you’re entirely satisfied with how your vehicle runs in its current state, in which case, you may just be better off leaving it.
If you have any concerns regarding the fix, your vehicle or the regulations that it may be breaking, you can contact Jaguar Land Rover customer services on the following numbers:
Jaguar 0345 303 2303
Land Rover 0370 5000 500
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Bluefire65
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Re: Jaguar and Land Rover cars recalled for excessive CO2 emissions

Post by Bluefire65 » Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:41 pm

Car has now been in to resolve the inoperative Stop/Start function that involved an overnight charge and an update to the battery monitor software, which led me to enquire whether the update included the H185 'fix'; it didn't and I was told that it only applies to a small number of vehicles, not every one in the Vin range eg only 22 vehicles affected in the county of Hampshire.
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DPE
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Re: Jaguar and Land Rover cars recalled for excessive CO2 emissions

Post by DPE » Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:53 pm

Personally I am disappointed at JLR standard response to a lot problems they get. They state, "It is working to the manufactures specification". Even when it is not working correctly. I have purchased two F Paces, 2.0D and a 3.0DS. The issue on the front wheel judder was very bad. They said it was manufacturers specification. Had JLR check the geometry and it was out, corrected it and it was then acceptable. Then on the 3.0ds still have a SatNav issue. On loan JLR cars some had the same and others were OK. My first F Pace was also ok, but not the Second F Pace. The Engineers have seen it and I have even video of the bad map positioning. Again after many mails between us. The official JLR response is "It is working to manufacturers specification".. How can it be ?? They have walked away from the issue. Bad customer after care service. What a shame !
F Pace 3.0d S AWD, Corris Grey, Heated Seats front/Rear, Heated Steering Wheel, Panoramic roof, Space Saver wheel and Nice wheels, lots of Stuff.. and cup covers 8-)


June16
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Re: Jaguar and Land Rover cars recalled for excessive CO2 emissions

Post by June16 » Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:19 pm

Got my letter today re 185 engine update.

It’s going nowhere near the dealers that’s for sure 😂

Interestingly having had a chat with a legal boffin , I’ve been informed that you can refuse the update as you own the car. They have no legal right to apply any updates or make any changes to the vehicle that you explicitly refuse and inform them of this, it is your property to do with as you wish.😎


Just to add to this
When you take your car to the dealer , you are always asked for a signature , this signature forms a contract that you are agreeing to the work stipulated.
You simply add a line saying “I DO NOT authorise the application H185 recall engine software to be applied to this vehicle “ . And sign it , this forms part of your contract and comes under contract law for legal purposes. 😎😎.

That little scribble of your signature carries a lot of weight in contract law.
MY18 Rsport 25t BRG , Ebony - Oyster, 18 way mem, Surround Cam, blis, ICTP, LED adaptive....etc


jeffreywoodham
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Re: Jaguar and Land Rover cars recalled for excessive CO2 emissions

Post by jeffreywoodham » Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:49 pm

My car goes in next week. I have built up an excellent rapport with my dealer and I’m not expecting any problems. Legal opinions, good God, are we not overthinking this a little, it’s only a software update.
2018 25t Portfolio, BRG, Siena, Privacy, Configurable Dynamics, Infra Red Screen


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