Engine noise on moving off

Faults and Technical chat for the Jaguar F-Pace.
dataglo
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:29 pm

Engine noise on moving off

Post by dataglo » Thu Aug 09, 2018 9:51 am

Hi all,
I have recently traded my much loved XF S Diesel 3.0 for a new F-Pace 3.0 Diesel Portfolio MY 2019.
On moving off from a standstill the engine appears to rev up a bit before power is transmitted to the wheels.
This was not something I experienced with the XF. I have previously test driven a 2.0 Diesel F-Pace which from memory behaved in a similar manner to my F-Pace.
II would be grateful for any views on this perhaps from anybody who has changed their XF for an F-Pace.
F-Pace. 3.0 diesel Portfolio MY 2019. Corris Grey, 20 ins Venom diamond cut, Lumbar, Memory pack, Park assist


RDB1
Posts: 73
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2017 12:58 pm

Re: Engine noise on moving off

Post by RDB1 » Thu Aug 09, 2018 10:04 am

Hi Dataglo

I have also come through the same route as you, my previous car being a XF 3.0D to a F-Pace S 3.0D, I think i know what you are experiencing as it was a surprise to me also. Namely that the XF was very smooth and quiet from standstill with smooth gearing. I found the F-Pace has a more agricultural roar to it which is not unpleasant but slightly less refined. But the main thing I noticed was that if feels like it sets off in second gear before a slight jolt into third. So it needs more power to initially get going but then its fine. I notice this particularly when cold and it does get a bit better when warm. My understanding is that this is all normal and some have referred to it as like pulling a caravan, however that's a bit harsh. Someone also mentioned that using manual gears on the paddles and selecting first can eliminate this if you can be bothered.

Giving it more power on start does override the effect but not always something you want to do but I think it is a trait of the car and something you will get used to unless of course you do have a fault but it is a subject that has been discussed before.

Hope you enjoy the new car
F-Pace 3.0D S - 2018, Corris grey, Pano Roof (fixed), Cold Climate Pack, ICTP 380W, Privacy glass, Spare wheel, Service Pack etc


dataglo
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Dec 17, 2017 12:29 pm

Re: Engine noise on moving off

Post by dataglo » Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:05 am

Hi RDB1,
Thank you for your very fast response. Your description is exactly what I am experiencing (and much better explained).
I had not been aware of a previous thread on the subject and will have a search for it.
My car is the same colour as your own-very nice. I haven't figured out how to add my car's details at the end of my post!
Thanks for your good wishes.
F-Pace. 3.0 diesel Portfolio MY 2019. Corris Grey, 20 ins Venom diamond cut, Lumbar, Memory pack, Park assist


RDB1
Posts: 73
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2017 12:58 pm

Re: Engine noise on moving off

Post by RDB1 » Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:02 pm

Hi Dataglo

If you click on your name at the top right hand corner of the page. you can go to edit profile and add your signature there.

Regards
F-Pace 3.0D S - 2018, Corris grey, Pano Roof (fixed), Cold Climate Pack, ICTP 380W, Privacy glass, Spare wheel, Service Pack etc


monalisasmiler
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 2:12 pm

Re: Engine noise on moving off

Post by monalisasmiler » Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:03 pm

Thanks for the post and direction I too am experiencing this, found it pretty frustrating tbh but mine is an AWD 20D Automatic feels very sluggish when moving from junctions and roundabouts, I love the looks of the car just not keen on this aspect.


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catwoman
Posts: 1666
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:07 pm

Re: Engine noise on moving off

Post by catwoman » Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:35 pm

Which mode are you driving in? . . 'Eco' mode will make the car feel very sluggish and heavy, 'Normal' mode should feel a lot better but there is still quite a noticeable lag on the auto gearbox before it allows the engine to deliver drive power, 'Dynamic' mode should feel much livlier on the throttle and has been known to cause spontaneous grins of delight, which should suit you, Monalisasmiler! But lots of others have commented on this 'lag' characteristic and it has been discussed in the past about how the eight-speed gearbox launches from a standing start in 2nd gear, unless you force it to launch in 1st gear via the paddle shifts.
8-) . . been enjoying since July '16, 2.0d R-Sport, Ammonite + Black Pack, Jet/Red interior and a few other options


Smitten
Posts: 393
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 9:53 am

Re: Engine noise on moving off

Post by Smitten » Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:08 pm

Hi dataglo,

The engine does rev a little more upon start than I am used to on previous cars but is very smooth once moving. I assumed the gear ratios were set a little lower in much the same way as the gearing on estate versions of saloons is set lower as it assumes the vehicle has a bigger load/initial inertia to overcome at start? Maybe someone with more knowledge of automatic transmissions has a definitive answer for us? There has been a big discussion on this topic previously maybe the answer is in there...
3.0d S, Santorini black, black pack, 22" black rims, LEDs, Priv, 350W, ICTP, Ebony interior, AdSR, space saver, config ambient, remote release, lumbar, winter pack, rear recline. Build date Friday 13/4/18 :D


corriescar66
Posts: 1603
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2016 12:22 pm

Re: Engine noise on moving off

Post by corriescar66 » Thu Aug 09, 2018 7:12 pm

It's not the gearbox. It does default to setting off in second gear as part of the great drive for economy, so if you're used to a more urgent start you end up applying more throttle and quite a violent delivery when the turbos kick in.

It's turbo lag, not 'a lag on the auto box'.

The old 2.2D was 155hp, the 2.0D was only 128hp. These four cylinder 2.0L ingenium engines are pushing out 180, 240hp. Why? Because they have 'huge' turbos (the 240hp has two). You need revs to get 'turbo boost' and setting off in eco, in second gear will be marginally quicker than squeezing old toothpaste.

The 3.0D is the same.

237hp, then 250hp, 271 and finally 300hp in the post 2016 cars. On a heavy car the effect is amplified. As the turbo has gotten bigger, so has the lag

Those noticing the difference with their old XF's (presumably old shape ones?) are experiencing the effects of increasing the turbo size in the quest for hp at the expense of driveability.

If you catch these diesels at the sweet spot when you're looking for power, great, the torque is impressive. Catch it sleeping and you might as well sit back and wait for the inevitable thump 5 -10 secs after you needed it.

At least they're discussing the straight six ingeniums again....
Nov 2016: 3.0 S V6 Supercharged Petrol/Italiana da Corsa Rossa / Jet-Taurus/ 22" Helix etc....


Deltasierra
Posts: 230
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2016 5:33 pm
Location: Warwick UK

Re: Engine noise on moving off

Post by Deltasierra » Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:40 am

I'm not convinced it's the turbo lag that's the problem, cruising at 50 in top gear the engine is doing only 1200 rpm, at those revs you cannot expect torque, so anticipating overtaking just flick the throttle pedal the gearbox will change down, revs rise to 1500 and there is plenty of go then. ( In a manual car you would change down yourself).

From a standing start in default second the torque convertor slips and the engine revs to close to 2000 which is much more than I expect, after a delay of 2 or 3 secs? either revs fall back if you are in traffic or the car takes off if you are accelerating hard.
That is not turbo lag I think it is the Lockup Clutch on the torque convertor being controlled by either a time delay or a very low speed. That would help economy because convertor slip wastes energy, gear ratios are very close does the lockup clutch remain engaged all the time above idling rpm.

Can anyone explain how it is controlled
FPace 3.0D Portfolio Loire Blue, light interior, tow bar. No issues a very good car
Gone F Pace Prestige 2 liter Auto, tow bar, reversing camera, 14 way seats, 18 inch all season tyres
XKR Convertible


corriescar66
Posts: 1603
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2016 12:22 pm

Re: Engine noise on moving off

Post by corriescar66 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:44 am

Deltasierra wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:40 am
I'm not convinced it's the turbo lag that's the problem, cruising at 50 in top gear the engine is doing only 1200 rpm, at those revs you cannot expect torque, so anticipating overtaking just flick the throttle pedal the gearbox will change down, revs rise to 1500 and there is plenty of go then. ( In a manual car you would change down yourself).

From a standing start in default second the torque convertor slips and the engine revs to close to 2000 which is much more than I expect, after a delay of 2 or 3 secs? either revs fall back if you are in traffic or the car takes off if you are accelerating hard.
That is not turbo lag I think it is the Lockup Clutch on the torque convertor being controlled by either a time delay or a very low speed. That would help economy because convertor slip wastes energy, gear ratios are very close does the lockup clutch remain engaged all the time above idling rpm.

Can anyone explain how it is controlled
If it was the gearbox, then why doesn't the same gearbox exhibit the same characteristics with all the engines? It does NOT do this with the 3.0 S/C petrol.

A manual would be better, but the fly by wire throttle may also have an input ( mine accelerates and won't accelerate on it's own depending on how it's feeling - one of the reasons I haven't seen it in over two months..).

In June I had a 240 D XF sportbrake. If you backed off momentarily, say waiting for a gap to overtake, the power would just disappear, so when why pressed the throttle to move out all you'd get would be... nothing. Perhaps its software is designed this way for max economy/min emissions, but I couldn't live with a car like this on a daily basis. It is at best unpredictable which forces you to err on the side of caution. Fine, but drop the 'Sport' from 'Sport SUV'. The current 3.0 S XF is better, but it still does it.

It's supposed to learn your driving style, but perhaps it can't cope with 70% driving like Miss Daisy and the occasional burst of boy racer.

When I changed from a 250hp RRS to the new 271hp 3.0l D I was devastated. The lag was a joke and dangerous. We used to have a game at junctions where we would count the delay between flooring the pedal and any movement. The maximum was 5 secs before it shot off like a rocket.

Over a year of meeting technicians sent out to placate me, I was given the advice to left foot brake & rev it's nuts off before pulling off. Tried it twice, but the smell of burning components was alarming. They tell me you cant brake & accelerate at the same time on the F Pace, so doubt it's worth trying that one.
Nov 2016: 3.0 S V6 Supercharged Petrol/Italiana da Corsa Rossa / Jet-Taurus/ 22" Helix etc....


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