Riv-bonding’ Aluminium monocoque panels issues

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Barthog
Posts: 109
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2016 8:48 pm

Riv-bonding’ Aluminium monocoque panels issues

Post by Barthog » Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:25 pm

Well after 5 weeks in the dealers.

I have been told the creaking Issue was with 3 panels in the boot area were they meet and that during production of the car no lubricant was applied in the aluminium monocoque sandwhich which was causing the creaking.

Lubricant has now been added and this has fixed the problem. So I am told.

Anyone else had the same issue, as this sounds like the same issue others have had with joints/rivets on other Jaguar and Land Rover models.
Fixes include re riveting, felt applied to joints etc.
Due March,Ebony Black,10 Way Jet/Light Oyster,20" Grey Blades,Pano roof/Gloss Black,ICT Pro 380W,Adap Dynam,Pract Pack,Keyless Entry,Rear View Cam,Config Mood Lighting,priv glass,Hted Scrn/Jets,350mm Brakes,S/saver,cup holder,Serv/Pack.Activity Key.


Deltasierra
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Location: Warwick UK

Re: Riv-bonding’ Aluminium monocoque panels issues

Post by Deltasierra » Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:50 pm

Lubricating panel joints to enable them to move more easily, not bonded at all ! - I would be asking for a full explanation, what, where, why and how. How often does the lubricant have to be renewed.
FPace 3.0D Portfolio Loire Blue, light interior, tow bar. No issues a very good car
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Jagfpacejk
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Re: Riv-bonding’ Aluminium monocoque panels issues

Post by Jagfpacejk » Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:40 pm

Are you sure its lubricant and not sealant, if the panels meant to be bonded why would you put lubricant on them.

Does not sound right or you may have been miss informed.
Ex Owner of a Pre Launch 1st Edition Supercharged V6 and a Ex Owner of 1st Edition Diesel V6


June16
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Re: Riv-bonding’ Aluminium monocoque panels issues

Post by June16 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:07 pm

Same issue on discovery sport, they chiseled the seams apart till the e-coat clicks and separates, then spray lub in , used pliers to close the seam then repaint it. It’s normally hidden under the rubber seal trim.
Not one case of lubricating the panels worked long term.

It took 3 years for them to sort out the DS by repressing new panels and changing sealant flow at the factory and repositioning welds . Only fixed a couple of months ago
It either creaked or ticked in hot weather , I rejected my DS for this creaking ticking issue on panels. Some folks had it on their replacement vehicles too. Quite a lot of rejections too.

As above I’d ask to see a copy of the repair procedure or at least JLR the bulletin number they used , ask them to explain exactly what they have done it has to be a documented repair process.
MY18 Rsport 25t BRG , Ebony - Oyster, 18 way mem, Surround Cam, blis, ICTP, LED adaptive....etc


Barthog
Posts: 109
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2016 8:48 pm

Re: Riv-bonding’ Aluminium monocoque panels issues

Post by Barthog » Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:14 am

Yes definitely told it was Lubricant,
June16 confirms this is correct as I was unsure myself!
I had asked were the seams separated and told no just lubricant applied.
As suggested I will ask for the report and full details.
Thanks for the responses.
Due March,Ebony Black,10 Way Jet/Light Oyster,20" Grey Blades,Pano roof/Gloss Black,ICT Pro 380W,Adap Dynam,Pract Pack,Keyless Entry,Rear View Cam,Config Mood Lighting,priv glass,Hted Scrn/Jets,350mm Brakes,S/saver,cup holder,Serv/Pack.Activity Key.


Jagfpacejk
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Re: Riv-bonding’ Aluminium monocoque panels issues

Post by Jagfpacejk » Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:38 am

Barthog wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:14 am
Yes definitely told it was Lubricant,
June16 confirms this is correct as I was unsure myself!
I had asked were the seams separated and told no just lubricant applied.
As suggested I will ask for the report and full details.
Thanks for the responses.
It may well hide the noise but for how long, ask them if they have had or seen this issue before themselves.

As above I would be surprised if it's not a short term fix and your be back, if the two seems rubbing is making the noise I can not see lubricant working, as stated if they are meant to be a tight no moving bond then you would not expect to see the factory using lubricant.

Good luck and keep us posted.
Ex Owner of a Pre Launch 1st Edition Supercharged V6 and a Ex Owner of 1st Edition Diesel V6


June16
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Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2016 10:45 pm

Re: Riv-bonding’ Aluminium monocoque panels issues

Post by June16 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:41 am

Jagfpacejk wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:38 am
Barthog wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:14 am
Yes definitely told it was Lubricant,
June16 confirms this is correct as I was unsure myself!
I had asked were the seams separated and told no just lubricant applied.
As suggested I will ask for the report and full details.
Thanks for the responses.
It may well hide the noise but for how long, ask them if they have had or seen this issue before themselves.

As above I would be surprised if it's not a short term fix and your be back, if the two seems rubbing is making the noise I can not see lubricant working, as stated if they are meant to be a tight no moving bond then you would not expect to see the factory using lubricant.

Good luck and keep us posted.
Agree there is no lubricant used in production, it’s down to panel clearance, tolerance of gaps and thickness of e-coat applied on dipping the car, and sealent tracks. The lubricant won’t last forever. I guess getting some sort of extended warranty on that specific fix might be worth chasing?

The DS issue manifested itself in the B Pillars , right next to your ear. It used to either tick on rough ground when steering input caused flex, or creak on uneven ground. It was more predominant in hot areas as expansion made the issue show up. Googling discovery sport B pillar tick is an eye opener .

It took nearly 3 years , a lot of unhappy customers who had cars basically vandalised by repair shops. But there are still many DS vehicles out there that this can materialise on, we all dreaded the thought of the size of the bill if this appeared when out of warranty.

Here is the fix in production we gleaned from LR only last month. The paint flow mentioned is the coat. It’s the same type of process,

*******
From JLR:

“Further to my previous post I have been liaising further with the engineering team who have advised the below.

"Having investigated a number of vehicles that exhibited the noise, we determined that there were several factors that contributed to multiple noise sources (although they sounded like a single tick in most cases).

In addition to the changes made to the welds on the seat-belt reinforcement panels, we made very subtle changes to the press tools to make slight dimensional changes to a number of panels. Additionally, we re-positioned a number of welds and we extended and tuned the sealer path which changed the characteristics of the paint flow.

We developed specialised, additional end-of-line testing which allowed us to find issues in plant and we put a large number of vehicles through this test without a failure before we were confident that we could release the Assured VINs. As it is understood that the noise tends to manifest itself at higher temperatures, we also put cars through our hot test chamber on a continuous basis and completed the hot climate testing on more than 300 cars before we released the Assured VINs.

Finally, we have a number of markets where the higher temperatures and more arduous road conditions resulted in a much higher failure rate than in other territories. There have been no noises on cars past the Assured VINs in these territories."

***
MY18 Rsport 25t BRG , Ebony - Oyster, 18 way mem, Surround Cam, blis, ICTP, LED adaptive....etc


Jagfpacejk
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Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2016 6:58 pm

Re: Riv-bonding’ Aluminium monocoque panels issues

Post by Jagfpacejk » Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:58 pm

Sounds like they know the issue and resolved this, good result.
Ex Owner of a Pre Launch 1st Edition Supercharged V6 and a Ex Owner of 1st Edition Diesel V6


Barthog
Posts: 109
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2016 8:48 pm

Re: Riv-bonding’ Aluminium monocoque panels issues

Post by Barthog » Tue Jun 19, 2018 9:47 am

Nearly 6 weeks without my car now, waiting on a response from JLr to the request dealer made.
Due March,Ebony Black,10 Way Jet/Light Oyster,20" Grey Blades,Pano roof/Gloss Black,ICT Pro 380W,Adap Dynam,Pract Pack,Keyless Entry,Rear View Cam,Config Mood Lighting,priv glass,Hted Scrn/Jets,350mm Brakes,S/saver,cup holder,Serv/Pack.Activity Key.


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Reggraham
Posts: 65
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2018 7:49 am

Re: Riv-bonding’ Aluminium monocoque panels issues

Post by Reggraham » Wed Jul 04, 2018 5:03 pm

I would be surprised if they made changes to the pressing dies at well over a £1M for the dies and the fact that they press each panel with 5 separate dies, any change to those is only at a complete model change. The face lift is one very minor change, minor exterior changes maybe the bonnet in the case of the XF but the main body panels stay the same. It was more likely they change the jigs that hold the panels while glueing and riveting. That was the only process that looked a bit suspect to me when visiting the factory. The panels are glued together held lightly and moved to the next station for riveting. During this move they are moving a whole body from one station to the other that has not yet been riveted the jig holds the body in shape, although the bonding is supposed to be strong, the robots then rivet all the panels together. Everything in the body assembly stage is done by robot only maintenance and top-up of supplies is done by humans.
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