snow socks or snow chains

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Arianne
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Location: Scottish Borders

Re: snow socks or snow chains

Post by Arianne » Mon Dec 19, 2016 10:50 am

StevenH wrote:
Arianne wrote:Not looking good, tried all my usual online providers that were stocking them a few weeks back but they are all out of stock now. That's the way it goes, they don't want to be stuck with them come Spring so when they're gone they're gone.

Ring around and maybe the retailer can order them in special?

Arianne
:shock: On the one hand I should be feeling fairly smug that I got mine 2 weeks ago. Instead I'm thinking I hope I don't get a puncture in the next 4 months!

Crikey, yes. Never thought of that. I am okay for my current car as I have a couple of part-worn winter tyres sitting on the rack in my garage. They only have about 3mm tread but better than nothing in the event of a puncture that can't be repaired.

But when we take delivery of our F-pace in March, we will only be buying four winters for the first year so we will also be carrying that risk! Punctures are rare these days and most can be fixed. I have ordered a temporary spare wheel so I won't be ruining the tyre with the squirty cream stuff.

Arianne
Rejected but still affectionately remembered: F-Pace 3.0d V6 S, IRR, 18 way jet/red sports seats + full memory, privacy glass, 22" silver/black double helix, cold climate pack!


RaVolVoR
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Re: snow socks or snow chains

Post by RaVolVoR » Mon Dec 19, 2016 11:19 am

Here's a question for you guys in the snowy stuff... say you get the puncture and have to switch to the temp spare, would your chains still fit? I'm just curious as I've never driven in severe snow, are they adjustable for the narrow section?

The most snow my car will ever see is the London traffic stopping 2 inches we get once every 4 years, so I'm not likely to ever think about snow chains/winter tyres etc, I'll just stay home and watch the nutters in BMW's burnt out their clutches (I live on a hill and this is generally what happens after sprinkling of snow!
AWD Portfolio, Italian Racing Red , a car with more "bounce" than most inflatable castles!


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redonebe
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Re: snow socks or snow chains

Post by redonebe » Mon Dec 19, 2016 1:50 pm

RaVolVoR wrote:Here's a question for you guys in the snowy stuff... say you get the puncture and have to switch to the temp spare, would your chains still fit? I'm just curious as I've never driven in severe snow, are they adjustable for the narrow section?

The most snow my car will ever see is the London traffic stopping 2 inches we get once every 4 years, so I'm not likely to ever think about snow chains/winter tyres etc, I'll just stay home and watch the nutters in BMW's burnt out their clutches (I live on a hill and this is generally what happens after sprinkling of snow!
Forget it. The chain will never fit. Curious to know what is best. Drive with only one chain or remove both when the spare is fitted. I think leaving one on is best.

Oh wait. I don't have the spare. Going with the "squirty cream stuff" ;) ;) .
Last edited by redonebe on Mon Dec 19, 2016 7:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2.0D Prestige, Ultimate Black, Jet, Intouch Pro , privacy, 18" Lightweight 15, cup holder cover....,


pgk
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Re: snow socks or snow chains

Post by pgk » Mon Dec 19, 2016 3:33 pm

Hi
Probably another for Arianne to give feedback - if he has not yet gone and willing?

Told the dealer salesman that one of the purposes was to take it to the Alps for Skiing - but didn't follow up to ask the correct questions - if only I had the knowledge from these pages... Have checked the tyres (now with 2.5k miles) on the FPace and of course they are the P Zero's and feedback elsewhere doesnt make me feel any better...

However we have been taking cars to the Alps since 1980, some years with clear roads and some with snow. These include an early 80's Audi 90 Quattro (when there was a huge dump the previous night) and had to get to Val d'Isere on inches of snow, a later RS6 up to La Thuile with snow falling, and over the St Christoph pass (to avoid the tunnel toll!!, but also to 'drive' the snow). One of the first XC90's to Val again - with snow coming down, two different X5s - coming down from Les Menuires with snow on the road and falling. All the AWD cars never once gave me a problem with traction or steering. I was never busting a gut to be fair, so local delivery vans were asked to pass me :-) as I didn't rush to do in a c£30-£50k car! (Even took a Quattroporte over the Col d'Iseran in the summer, but thats a different story)

The point being, that in these 35 years, I had no idea what tyres were on the vehicles, and never had to use chains. All cars were sourced in the UK, so "normal" tires would have been on any of the vehicles. So am I worrying unnecessarily for a holiday like the OP? Or will the P Zeros be seriously worse technology than the tyres of the 80s and 90s - maybe because then tyres were all rounders, rather than for specifics??


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Arianne
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Re: snow socks or snow chains

Post by Arianne » Mon Dec 19, 2016 8:52 pm

RaVolVoR wrote:Here's a question for you guys in the snowy stuff... say you get the puncture and have to switch to the temp spare, would your chains still fit? I'm just curious as I've never driven in severe snow, are they adjustable for the narrow section?

The most snow my car will ever see is the London traffic stopping 2 inches we get once every 4 years, so I'm not likely to ever think about snow chains/winter tyres etc, I'll just stay home and watch the nutters in BMW's burnt out their clutches (I live on a hill and this is generally what happens after sprinkling of snow!
It's about percentage probability..... the likelihood of picking up a puncture while negotiating roads covered in snow are very, very low. TBH, the likelihood of picking up any puncture these days is low - unless you frequent the hard shoulder or live near a building site etc. So I think the question is, for the most part, theoretical but here goes: I would pop the temporary spare on the car as a means of limping to a safe haven / home. And then I would sit tight until the weather improved, the puncture is repaired (usually half-day) or I obtain a new tyre. The valley we visit for skiing has a Shell petrol station that sells winter tyres and chains - I would hope they could order me in a replacement tyre but it's a long shot because of the 22" size. I am cautious about risk but even I avoided the full-size spare and the chances of this happening to me are remote.

I have tried one snow chain on my Alfa Romeo 33 when the nearside snapped (cheap Halfords set when money was a bit tighter than it is now - mortgage, children etc.). One snow chain don't work on a gentle incline. Might try it again if I had run out of other options but wouldn't hold out much hope.

Of course, experiencing a puncture while on black roads is no different with a winter tyre than a summer one - the temporary spare will go on for miles and miles, just more slowly!

There are many things I sometimes worry about in life but a puncture to a winter tyre actually while in the snow isn't one of them.

pgk wrote:Hi
Probably another for Arianne to give feedback - if he has not yet gone and willing?

Told the dealer salesman that one of the purposes was to take it to the Alps for Skiing - but didn't follow up to ask the correct questions - if only I had the knowledge from these pages... Have checked the tyres (now with 2.5k miles) on the FPace and of course they are the P Zero's and feedback elsewhere doesnt make me feel any better...

However we have been taking cars to the Alps since 1980, some years with clear roads and some with snow. These include an early 80's Audi 90 Quattro (when there was a huge dump the previous night) and had to get to Val d'Isere on inches of snow, a later RS6 up to La Thuile with snow falling, and over the St Christoph pass (to avoid the tunnel toll!!, but also to 'drive' the snow). One of the first XC90's to Val again - with snow coming down, two different X5s - coming down from Les Menuires with snow on the road and falling. All the AWD cars never once gave me a problem with traction or steering. I was never busting a gut to be fair, so local delivery vans were asked to pass me :-) as I didn't rush to do in a c£30-£50k car! (Even took a Quattroporte over the Col d'Iseran in the summer, but thats a different story)

The point being, that in these 35 years, I had no idea what tyres were on the vehicles, and never had to use chains. All cars were sourced in the UK, so "normal" tires would have been on any of the vehicles. So am I worrying unnecessarily for a holiday like the OP? Or will the P Zeros be seriously worse technology than the tyres of the 80s and 90s - maybe because then tyres were all rounders, rather than for specifics??
So here's my take on the foregoing: First up, AWD cars are no different to your bog-standard Vauxhall Astra FWD when it comes to steering or stopping - oh yes, actually they are...... they're a whole lot more heavier to stop or steer once they have picked up momentum. All of them, including the humble Astra, stop by braking on four wheels and steer on the front two. So, if they are all wearing summer rubber boots then it's ice-skating time for the driver. No thank you.

Turning to acceleration traction - I guess that AWD on Summer tyres will be slightly more effective than the Astra (although I am unsure whether the Jaguar's rear wheel drive bias is such a good thing in snow & ice). Most AWD cars / SUVs have a front wheel bias (your Volvo XC90 certainly did, as I had one on a 2006/06 plate too). But the difference will be minor and, on an incline, of little impact. Back in 2010 & 2011 we had truly arctic conditions up here in The Scottish Borders for weeks. I received a call from the lad to go and rescue him from his Xmas job at Currys, Galashiels where he made some money each year between university semesters. It had snowed heavily and he didn't fancy the return trip in his old Peugeot 206. So off I went in my XC90 and remember passing a SsangYong AWD / 4WD which was stranded on a hill with all four wheels whizzing but no traction - wrong tyres you see.

I love AWD because of the fact you can get the traction down so well, it is great in adverse weather and it's safer. But what connects the driver, passengers, car, the electronic wizardry and your pet dogs with Planet Earth is the same for everyone - the four rubber boots in each corner, Dacia Sandero or Jaguar F-pace. So, because I live in Scotland and we ski-drive every year it's a no-brainer for me - I buy my winter tyres online in the late-Summer / early-Autumn and that's that. If I lived in Southern England and didn't ski drive then I wouldn't bother with anything other than standard Summer tyres.

Best wishes, tyres sound boring but there's more the them than first meets the eye! I never share this story with friends as they wouldn't be friends for long!!!! But this is a car enthusiasts forum so I hope it's not too boring, at least you can choose to skip this thread if it's not your thing ;)

Arianne
Rejected but still affectionately remembered: F-Pace 3.0d V6 S, IRR, 18 way jet/red sports seats + full memory, privacy glass, 22" silver/black double helix, cold climate pack!


JLRnumber5
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Re: snow socks or snow chains

Post by JLRnumber5 » Mon Dec 19, 2016 9:57 pm

^ I reckon I know your specialist subject if you ever find yourself on BBC Mastermind ;-)
Two 3.0D F-pace S gone but not forgotten.


RaVolVoR
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Location: SE London/Kent

Re: snow socks or snow chains

Post by RaVolVoR » Tue Dec 20, 2016 10:23 am

Arianne wrote:(although I am unsure whether the Jaguar's rear wheel drive bias is such a good thing in snow & ice).
I guess this is where the progress control might come in handy? If it works it should be autonomously preventing the wheels spinning by applying brakes at each corner, assuming I've read it right!

I agree on the likelihood of the puncture scenario, it was intended as a theoretical question only. Thanks for replying and I hope I haven't marked your cards by tempting fate for your ski trip!
AWD Portfolio, Italian Racing Red , a car with more "bounce" than most inflatable castles!


Johnnyboy
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Re: snow socks or snow chains

Post by Johnnyboy » Tue Dec 20, 2016 4:06 pm

Thanks for the posts guys!
I think i`m going to fit the Pirelli Scorpion Winter tyres for my trip and to use until about march as i live in Wales where its always bloody raining!!

I`m driving again at the end of January so trip just after xmas will be a good test.

Think i`m going to get a pair of snow chains to fit the tyres( Not the Thule ones!!) just in case instead of the socks but hopefully the Winter tyres will do the job.

My local dealer said that the only tyres he reccommends for the F pace load etc is the Pirelli`s.
Got them for £210 each inc VAT & fitting!!
My tyres are 255/55 R19 111W

Pirellis` link to tyres: -- https://www.pirelli.com/tyres/en-gb/car ... #/overview

Thanks Again for the help.
2.0d R-Sport, AWD, Italian Racing Red /Black seats, Black Pack, 19" Blade, in Control Touch Pro, Oyster Headlining, Privacy Glass, Pano, with sun roof, Config Dynamics, Heated Windscreen, Folding Mirrors, Space Svr Wheel, CUP HOLDER COVER!


blackjagmike
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Re: snow socks or snow chains

Post by blackjagmike » Tue Dec 20, 2016 4:46 pm

Hi Johnnyboy

I suspect the reason thats your tyre chaps recommendation is that Pirelli Scorpion Winter tyre is that its one of the very few that is Jaguar homologated.

But please note it is not a 3PMSF ( 3 Peaks Mountain Snow Flake) tyre which as previously stated would be the one that most regular travellers to the slopes would advocate. It also quite dear.

Please see link below for your size tyre - These are supply only prices so need to add approx £15 per wheel for fitting.

https://www.tyreleader.co.uk/car-tyres- ... 5B10%5D=on

Ive just fitted the Hankook W320A's today on my 20" rims. My local dealer charged a £160 incl VAT and fitting per corner. Will have a long drive over the next few days and can report back then but with these on I won't bother with chains or socks when I head to the Alps partly cos I'm a rebel partly I enjoy ignoring the French and partly because if an AWD SUV with AdSR and Progress Control gets stuck then most things on the roads chains or not aint going to get far. It also comes from about 15 years of hitting the Alps in several 4x4's but always with 3PMSF winter tyres. I was concerned the first trip as I didn't know what to expect but I have never had a problem incl driving first thing after overnight snowfall of > 20 inches. Although I always have a snow shovel too just in case.

Sorry to come late to the party on this but wanted to let you know there are alternative approaches that might be cheaper and more reliable in full on snow.

All the best whatever you choose

Mike
3.0D Ultimate black w/black pack, black 20" Blades 14w Jet Memory Seats, Panoramic Roof, Privacy Glass, ITCP, AdSR etc basically lots of black stuff and toys!!


StevenH
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Re: snow socks or snow chains

Post by StevenH » Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:36 pm

blackjagmike wrote:Hi Johnnyboy

I suspect the reason thats your tyre chaps recommendation is that Pirelli Scorpion Winter tyre is that its one of the very few that is Jaguar homologated.

But please note it is not a 3PMSF ( 3 Peaks Mountain Snow Flake) tyre which as previously stated would be the one that most regular travellers to the slopes would advocate. It also quite dear.

Please see link below for your size tyre - These are supply only prices so need to add approx £15 per wheel for fitting.

https://www.tyreleader.co.uk/car-tyres- ... 5B10%5D=on

Ive just fitted the Hankook W320A's today on my 20" rims. My local dealer charged a £160 incl VAT and fitting per corner. Will have a long drive over the next few days and can report back then but with these on I won't bother with chains or socks when I head to the Alps partly cos I'm a rebel partly I enjoy ignoring the French and partly because if an AWD SUV with AdSR and Progress Control gets stuck then most things on the roads chains or not aint going to get far. It also comes from about 15 years of hitting the Alps in several 4x4's but always with 3PMSF winter tyres. I was concerned the first trip as I didn't know what to expect but I have never had a problem incl driving first thing after overnight snowfall of > 20 inches. Although I always have a snow shovel too just in case.

Sorry to come late to the party on this but wanted to let you know there are alternative approaches that might be cheaper and more reliable in full on snow.

All the best whatever you choose

Mike
Hey Mike I have the Pirelli Scorpions (in 22 inch) and unless my eyes are seriously deceiving me they do have a (very small) 3 peaked mountain with a snowflake in the middle just near where the tyre touches the rim. The problem with the 22 inch wheels is the size is so unusual we basically have very little choice, but I think these do have the symbol.

Steven

Ps I also have the socks. Not because I like complying with French rules but because in the event of another snowmageddon event (here's hoping) I don't get stopped from driving up the mountain (which I have seen several times in the past). Not my idea of fun at the end of a long drive. They don't even make you put them on if you have winters but they will stop you driving up.


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