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Considering F-Pace S (New vs Ex Jaguar Management)

11K views 24 replies 7 participants last post by  Deltasierra 
#1 ·
Good evening everyone,

After being an Audi customer for the last 3 years and most recently our Audi S3 suffering an engine failure at 3 months old, we have decided to consider returning to JLR. We have driven an ex Jaguar management vehicle at our local dealer, needless to say it was in horrendous condition with only 16,000 miles on the clock. Typically they had a brand new F-Pace S sat next to it full of options. We have seen a F-Pace S at Hatfield's Jaguar in Sheffield which we really like it has just over 10,000 miles with a very good specification. It's also an ex Jaguar management car and although the dealership have been great with assurance of condition, I have my doubts, especially after the one we drove.

My question for anyone with prior knowledge or experience is should we consider an ex Jaguar management car at all? If so is there any member kind enough near to Sheffield who might be able to look at the car and give us some feedback from their point of view. We live 178 miles from Sheffield so sadly not round the corner.

I would be grateful for any advice as currently we're in a dilemma about whether we should buy another new car again and the financial impact they have.

Regards

HB.
 
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#2 ·
I would draw your attention to the thread below where this has been discussed at length. In short, there is no way of knowing exactly what the management vehicle has been doing before. I hired an "S" from Avis Prestige which had one of the plate prefixes mentioned in the thread and it was scuffed all over and hadn't been treated with much care.

https://www.fpaceforums.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=4098&hilit=Caesium+blue+ex+management+cars

I quote from another member on this thread:

"All JLR vehicles are registered by an agency based in Oxfordshire so the vehicles have OE OV OW OY registrations and are then distributed to the management, staff car scheme, friends and family, press cars, JLR track cars, daily rental such as Europe car,Avis, Hertz ETC.
When these cars have served their time they are returned to JLR and are then sold direct to the dealer network or at auction to the wider market. The V55 registration document states the registered keeper of the vehicle as Jaguar Land Rover PLC with absolutely no indication as to who was the previous user or users as the case could be with daily rental companies.Dealers have been known to have alluded to the fact that the car they are selling is Ex Management but they have no way of knowing who was the previous user and a dealer was caught out recently when the customer saw a picture in a magazine of his recently purchased"ex management" XF R being driven sideways at 90 MPH with smoke coming off the tyres! So called JLR "ex management" cars may not always be what they seem.

To prove a point the Avis vehicle I rented was OE17 NDZ so if that's the one, cross it off your list. It drove OK but needed some serious TLC on the paintwork but it was fully loaded with extras.
 
#3 ·
It has been posted on this forum before that there is no such thing as "an ex Jaguar management car" so be careful what you may be considering. OE OV OW OY Reg plates can be ex Jaguar Land Rover vehicles ,true , but the previous drivers or users could be daily rental hire cars, JLR friends and family, JLR managers, ex press fleet. The V55 registration document states only the keeper as Jaguar Land Rover so your dealer has no way of knowing who was the previous user. Better to buy a dealer pre-registered car then at least it has no history.
 
#4 ·
Thank you for replies so far. I should of mentioned I have had it confirmed by head of business and Jaguar that the car was in fact an employees vehicle with a single user. Said employee has left Jaguar and thus why his/her car is being sold with less than average mileage. I've also spoken to Avis who confirmed it wasn't part of their fleet.

Still doesn't make me feel at ease as I did read that thread and you just never know, especially as dealerships want to sell cars.
 
#5 ·
A likely story from a dealer who wants a sale!!!!
 
#6 ·
Others to avoid
Vehicles rejected through Black Horse Finance ( JLR Finance ) turn up at BCA Blackbushe at one of their Monday auctions. Owners have tracked them there through In Control.

Plus
If you live in Oxfordshire you will without doubt get an O plate, my 3 DS were all O plate as were my 3 previous cars. I always put my private plates on new cars and the last 6 are issued an O plate on change through DVLA.

So this O plate theory has its inconsistencies if you actually live there .

Other one to avoid , but is rare to be sold , is VX as they are prototype vehicles.
 
#7 ·
Cheers for replies so far. In reference to new vs used, was this a consideration you had yourselves? For reference a new F-Pace S we have found is coming in at £64,880 and the used 67 plate at Hatfield's Jaguar is coming in at £46,250. Its an eye watering amount of money to lose. I appreciate everyone justifies differently, and rightly so, I'm just trying to gauge a better understanding of current owners.
 
#8 ·
Every MY (model year) gets little tweaks and fixes, so I'd always go for the latest build date possible .
In your case Id be looking for an MY19 , either current new or ex demo .

I always take the hit and buy new , the car then has no previous history of bumps , been rejected by someone else , badly run in , or ragged about etc.

The drop in price is just the VAT saving mainly.

Oh and try getting prices for new off carwow etc and bargain hard , dealers are having a tough time so use that to the max in your bartering process.
 
#9 ·
I have owned an ex Jaguar 1st edition F Pace that was a pre-launch vehicle and spent some of it's time at exhibitions, if the car your looking at had a similar life then you need to pay attention to areas like, one of the things you may want to look at is the seats, with people possibly getting in and out hundreds of times I found the pattern on the seat for such a low mileage car was heavy worn, this was one of the signs that showed the history of the car but was resolved by the dealer also some of the features on the car were not working or missing, the activity key was missing but again the dealer resolved.

The car also had many features that a first edition vehicle never had so it was truly unique at it's time.

The car was not bad on build quality, in fact compared to my first edition launch car there was very little difference in build quality apart from my launch first edition door fitment was not very good and had to be adjusted from new.

What i would recommend is you look over the car very very closely to ensure the cars condition ect is what you expect, i would also ensure the dealer gives you a good warranty cover at least six months but 12 months would be more respectful as you will be possibly having a car that the previous owners may not had cared for the car like others may have and it will give you some peace of mind.

There are a lot of second hand cars on the market so do not judge your decision based on the price.

Good luck.
 
#10 ·
Again appreciate replies. I should of listed the ex Jaguar management car were looking at for each of you if possible to have a look at your leisure. I've been using Carwow as a guide and dont get me wrong the dealers are being helpful and willing to do a deal. Depreciation is always a touchy subject as these cars do lose a lot of money in fact the one below has lost nearly £18,000 since new. Although large amount is VAT.

https://hatfields.co.uk/used-cars/jaguar-f-pace-3-0-diesel-300ps-s-awd-auto-10/?search-redirect=true&order-by=ID&order=asc&make=jaguar&model=f-pace&min-price=all&max-price=all
 
#11 ·
The main options that seem to be missing are Adaptive Cruise Control and any of the more advanced parking aids and 360 cameras. I didn't specify those either and haven't missed them. I find the standard parking aids and standard reversing camera are good enough. I havent missed ACC but I don't do a lot of motorway driving. Mileage seems reasonable too. I picked mine up in April 2018 and have 5200 on the clock for comparison. Paintwork is quite soft compared to my previous Audi. Being a dark colour it may well have picked up quite a few marks in supermarket car parks. I have already had a couple even being super careful. You will want a lengthy test drive to make sure there are no niggles. It does look like a nice example but you need to see it up close and check for swirls and scuff on the paintwork and make sure their are no repairs to the wheels. They are prone to kerb damage.
 
#12 ·
Thanks for reply Smitten. I would love 360 camera but finding a car in the country with one that isn't a factory order is proving very difficult. Solihull reducing to 3 days has caused a shortage of F-Pace available and current lead time is March 2019 for cars ordered now. We can't wait that long so limited to what new vehicles are available or the ex Jaguar management car. The thought of travelling in excess of 350 mile round trip to see a car we might not like is daunting.
 
#13 ·
HB_NORM said:
Thanks for reply Smitten. I would love 360 camera but finding a car in the country with one that isn't a factory order is proving very difficult. Solihull reducing to 3 days has caused a shortage of F-Pace available and current lead time is March 2019 for cars ordered now. We can't wait that long so limited to what new vehicles are available or the ex Jaguar management car. The thought of travelling in excess of 350 mile round trip to see a car we might not like is daunting.
Have you tried calling around dealers to see what's coming through there books?
 
#14 ·
Jagfpacejk said:
HB_NORM said:
Thanks for reply Smitten. I would love 360 camera but finding a car in the country with one that isn't a factory order is proving very difficult. Solihull reducing to 3 days has caused a shortage of F-Pace available and current lead time is March 2019 for cars ordered now. We can't wait that long so limited to what new vehicles are available or the ex Jaguar management car. The thought of travelling in excess of 350 mile round trip to see a car we might not like is daunting.
Have you tried calling around dealers to see what's coming through there books?
I have tried four (4) different franchise dealers in the South and they have checked all there stock. There seems to be a shortage in allocated build slots is the consensus I am getting.
 
#15 ·
HB_NORM said:
Jagfpacejk said:
HB_NORM said:
Thanks for reply Smitten. I would love 360 camera but finding a car in the country with one that isn't a factory order is proving very difficult. Solihull reducing to 3 days has caused a shortage of F-Pace available and current lead time is March 2019 for cars ordered now. We can't wait that long so limited to what new vehicles are available or the ex Jaguar management car. The thought of travelling in excess of 350 mile round trip to see a car we might not like is daunting.
Have you tried calling around dealers to see what's coming through there books?
I have tried four (4) different franchise dealers in the South and they have checked all there stock. There seems to be a shortage in allocated build slots is the consensus I am getting.
There is a lot more between you and the 350 mile dealer.

There are a lot of 2018 Fpace S on Autotrader. ;)
 
#16 ·
Having just bought an 'ex Jaguar Fleet' F-Pace, only last week, I can thoroughly recommend it as a viable option.

Although only the standard 20D, my R-Sport model is fully loaded, bar 360 camera, tow bar and blind spot functions and came with just over 4000 miles on the clock and the benefit of a 2 year warranty too.

Test drive was good and bodywork is all great, as is the interior.

Priced up a new model with the same spec and it comes to £56k, so it makes the £41 I paid seem very reasonable. I love Jaguars, but not enough to swallow depreciation like that (and I don't rent/lease cars, so the depreciation is real to me).

I wouldn't make the 360 camera a sticking point - the car can be set to kick in with all round park distance control at low speed anyway, with a graphic representation instead of a camera view, so it's no great loss.

I held out for LED lights, moon roof and most importantly, adaptive cruise control. On today's busy roads, and the motorway network in particular, ACC is a godsend and I'd not be without it, having had it on my last car.
 
#17 ·
Did anyone consider other rivals when looking to purchase a F-Pace? Reason I ask is we have been looking at an X3 M40d in comparison and a Range Rover Velar. Both have newer technology and platforms and feel a lot more premium inside, especially as the F-Pace buttons on the steering wheel make noises. I'd be keen to know what the forums opinions are.
 
#18 ·
HB_NORM said:
Did anyone consider other rivals when looking to purchase a F-Pace? Reason I ask is we have been looking at an X3 M40d in comparison and a Range Rover Velar. Both have newer technology and platforms and feel a lot more premium inside, especially as the F-Pace buttons on the steering wheel make noises. I'd be keen to know what the forums opinions are.
I have test driven the Velar and is a different drive to the Fpace but steered away due to issues with the cars the same as the Fpace.

Love the Fpace and the Velar drive but the issues with the cars mean i left the brand.

Maybe one day i'll come back once these issues are resolved.
 
#19 ·
HB_NORM said:
Did anyone consider other rivals when looking to purchase a F-Pace? Reason I ask is we have been looking at an X3 M40d in comparison and a Range Rover Velar. Both have newer technology and platforms and feel a lot more premium inside, especially as the F-Pace buttons on the steering wheel make noises. I'd be keen to know what the forums opinions are.
What feels more premium is subjective and there is an emotional aspect to purchasing decisions as well. I wanted an F Pace so that's what I test drove. I liked the look and design. I have had BMWs and Audi's previously and I would say my car is the same quality. It's been a great choice and I am very satisfied. Great car.
 
#20 ·
Thank you for the reviews so far. Like you Smitten we have had previous BMW's and Audi's most recently a brand new Audi S3 that had an engine failure due to a component issue after 3 months. Since then, we have been knocked back in confidence, and although you hear bad press about manufactures and particular models, I'm concerned that the F-Pace is still having issues reported. We have been offered a brand new one which retails at £64,660 so its very highly sought after specification, but reading reviews puts an element of doubt, which at that price is making our decision harder.
 
#21 ·
HB_NORM said:
Thank you for the reviews so far. Like you Smitten we have had previous BMW's and Audi's most recently a brand new Audi S3 that had an engine failure due to a component issue after 3 months. Since then, we have been knocked back in confidence, and although you hear bad press about manufactures and particular models, I'm concerned that the F-Pace is still having issues reported. We have been offered a brand new one which retails at £64,660 so its very highly sought after specification, but reading reviews puts an element of doubt, which at that price is making our decision harder.
Tough decision. We had a Mini with total failure of engine management unit at 4000 miles and it has completely tarnished the car and it's quality image in our eyes The dealer was useless as well. I suspect in this day and age none of the big manufacturers are immune from issues. My car has been excellent. No issues whatsoever. Dealers have been excellent too. I am sure I can't be the only one but good news isnt really news and never gets written about.
 
#22 ·
Smitten said:
HB_NORM said:
Thank you for the reviews so far. Like you Smitten we have had previous BMW's and Audi's most recently a brand new Audi S3 that had an engine failure due to a component issue after 3 months. Since then, we have been knocked back in confidence, and although you hear bad press about manufactures and particular models, I'm concerned that the F-Pace is still having issues reported. We have been offered a brand new one which retails at £64,660 so its very highly sought after specification, but reading reviews puts an element of doubt, which at that price is making our decision harder.
Tough decision. We had a Mini with total failure of engine management unit at 4000 miles and it has completely tarnished the car and it's quality image in our eyes The dealer was useless as well. I suspect in this day and age none of the big manufacturers are immune from issues. My car has been excellent. No issues whatsoever. Dealers have been excellent too. I am sure I can't be the only one but good news isnt really news and never gets written about.
I've just noticed Smiten that the car we have been offered is Santorini Black with very similar specification as yours! Difference of Meridan Surround, Drive pack and a few extras but for some unknown reason it doesn't have rear remote release. The cheapest option which is most useful. :lol:

I can't help but notice that a RR Velar with similar specification is a few thousand pounds more but the guaranteed future minimum value is £13,670 extra! Are Jaguar conservative for a reason?
 
#23 ·
Not sure why the Velar would have a higher resale value. What is this as a percentage of on the road price for both? Much difference? Options never count for much at selling time...

I would go with the car you want rather than worrying about what you will sell it for down the line. It's a depreciating asset so I would decide based on practicality and the fun factor and just accept it will be worth less than you paid for it at the end! Good luck.
 
#24 ·
HB_NORM said:
Smitten said:
HB_NORM said:
Thank you for the reviews so far. Like you Smitten we have had previous BMW's and Audi's most recently a brand new Audi S3 that had an engine failure due to a component issue after 3 months. Since then, we have been knocked back in confidence, and although you hear bad press about manufactures and particular models, I'm concerned that the F-Pace is still having issues reported. We have been offered a brand new one which retails at £64,660 so its very highly sought after specification, but reading reviews puts an element of doubt, which at that price is making our decision harder.
Tough decision. We had a Mini with total failure of engine management unit at 4000 miles and it has completely tarnished the car and it's quality image in our eyes The dealer was useless as well. I suspect in this day and age none of the big manufacturers are immune from issues. My car has been excellent. No issues whatsoever. Dealers have been excellent too. I am sure I can't be the only one but good news isnt really news and never gets written about.
I've just noticed Smiten that the car we have been offered is Santorini Black with very similar specification as yours! Difference of Meridan Surround, Drive pack and a few extras but for some unknown reason it doesn't have rear remote release. The cheapest option which is most useful. :lol:

I can't help but notice that a RR Velar with similar specification is a few thousand pounds more but the guaranteed future minimum value is £13,670 extra! Are Jaguar conservative for a reason?
No, think the re-sell value drops quicker on the Jaguar brand compared to the Land Rover or Range Rover brand.
 
#25 ·
In fairness there is no reason why the depreciation of Jaguar vehicles, the FPace in particular should depreciate quicker the Land Rover brand, the fault rate is 127 for Jag and 300 for LR vehicles, even the Porsche brand has a higher fault rate. So all those pious Macan owners are being very biased in their reporting, there are plenty of negative reports in the Macan forum.

The reality is if you trade in any premium vehicle early the depreciation is going to hurt, especially when the economic prospects are tight, having said that there may be some vehicles in short supply that sell at a premium second hand, but a volume brand like Jaguar is unlikely to be in that company.

In response to a market collapse in China, JLR are cashing in large numbers of stock and ex management vehicles to get some cash flow going and that is depressing the price, good housekeeping for them. It's the fault rate on Landrover vehicles that is a real concern, when a customer can buy the equivalent Lexus or Toyota or VW that is reliable, the desirability of a brand suffers. If I was a premium buyer in China or Asia or Africa I would not touch Landrover. However now they have less cars to build JLR now have the opportunity to concentrate on quality control and get the vehicles right, that includes suppliers too, it's clear that lowest cost components have been used cutting corners on quality.
 
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