[scottwatt500]

Hello Folks,
Been on the fringes of this forum for some time ( Since I ordered an F-Pace 3.0D AWD, Storm Grey back in October 2015 and took delivery on 02/09/16 about 11months later ), Looking for some more mechanically minded advice from some of you F-Pace drivers.

After having the F-Pace exactly one week I went and lifted bonnet on Friday to discover huge amount green water droppings all over engine / on front grill and what was certainly pressure release marks on the bonnet insulation of water spraying out, I called dealer immediately whom said it was engine coolant from the orange reservoir which cleared up the initial mystery. Car was recovered and back to dealer next morning and dealer gave me spare car so cannot complain here.

Dealer has called me today and saying the issue is a stone has gone through front grill and made a tiny imprint on radiator causing the leak so are saying I am not covered and have to pick up the cost's myself of a repair, Anyone else had any similar issues subsequent treatment? I am amazed at this as I have only driven 300miles & always been on A-Class roads that wouldn't have much stone chippings to my knowledge, curious top see if this appears to be a design flaw that anyone else has encountered?

Also I am not the most knowledgeable but the other strange thing for me was when I discovered the coolant in the engine and on front grill I started the car and got my wife to press the accelerator pedal twice and the engine coolant reservoir was visually observed to drop by approx. 5CM with no coolant leaking out and upon stopping car no level recovered, finally after an AA technician removed the coolant cap the reservoir did recover by approx. 2.5cm but never the full 5cm and there was nothing visually observed to leak within this time frame. Does anyone a bit more mechanically minded than myself have an explanation for why this would happen as this also concerns me but that may well be normal?

I am left seriously hacked off at present, I have always been fair with Jaguar and accepted the delays with the F-Pace with the best attitude possible & have always been pretty sceptical on most of the initial issues peoples have been discovering and trusted jaguar would get them right for something like this to then happen to myself for the amount of money I have chosen to spend on the car. I will be personally collecting the F-Pace back from dealer & asking the onsite technical guys for an overview on this and a visual on the old radiator to satisfy my mind and I have asked for pictures to be e-mailed to me right away before I approve any repair as I saw no visual leaks on the radiator myself, But under any circumstance what's to say this wont happen again soon.......

Sorry for the ranting, one upset F-Pace driver Mr Watt

 

[AlSnr]

A difficult one, actually I'd be well upset. After only one week I would like to think the dealer would provide a goodwill repair or replacement, or contribute generously towards it. After all you have spent 50k plus with them. But who's to say the radiator wasn't damaged when you got the car, after all it's been driven at the factory and by the dealer, that's perhaps the case I would make.
On the other hand, stone damage isn't a warranty item, same as tyre damage etc etc. The external grill is fairly course, but even so only small stones could enter.
I think all you can do is go for goodwill, mention the above, or if they can show evidence of stone damage 50/50 cost split.
Hope all goes well and you are back on the road soon.

 

[Arianne]

Hmm, not good. And that's an understatement :roll:

But if it is a stone that has popped through the radiator then technically it's not Jaguar's responsibility. It's the same as the two 22" media stars that have just kerbed their alloys - it's an incident rather than a fault with the product. Except in your case, the driver who kicked up the flying stone wasn't you and he has gone without trace.

Some companies would offer a partial contribution to the cost of the repair as a gesture of goodwill - worth its weight in gold for their brand reputation and customer loyalty. Right now you're currently formulating the succinct statement you'll be making in the next AutoExpress magazine driver survey and it doesn't sound like a halo statement! If they make you an offer of help then that all changes?

I had a stone put a hole in the compressor of my commuter-mobile Vectra a few years back. Vauxhall didn't offer to help and I didn't expect it. But then they did replace the whole rear tailgate under their rust anti-perforation warranty without any fuss. Yours is a Jaguar, an expensive one and it's just a few days old - they should make an offer of help and that's what I suggest you mention to them. I think you will have a decent chance. Give it a go, stay calm and you might get somewhere.

Just IMHO, that's all. Since you asked. Oh, and I feel for you!

Arianne

 

[Jagfpacejk]

That's really bad luck with so little mileage, if your not 100% sure what your being told is true as you mention in your post, you can always go see the car with the issue and ask them to point to where the problem is.

Really bad luck after so little mileage but what can you do, there are some people who have had a windscreen changed with less mileage its just one of those things.

 

[scottwatt500]

Thanks for responses folks, no one so far had any issue like this makes me scratch head more....

I have asked dealer to keep radiator and told them I want to see it along with technician who has managed to diagnose it as a stone chip & also I want to see the manager also when I go up to collect it as I intend taking this up with jaguar customer relations also, Seriously fustrated as I have not really heard of this ever happening on a car before and I would have expected I would have noticed this when I spotted fault as I did look at the radiator briefly for obvious damage.

What scares me if true is it must be a shocking design flaw if what they say is true and a stone can do this to your car as any mechanic/experienced car worker I have asked tonight have said they would not expect this to happen, plus my luck must be seriously low!! The other issue with the reservoir depleating and no clear leak before my eyes is niggling away at me also.

very sour taste at present. Onto dealer again tomorrow to see if they see it as a design flaw and fancy some goodwill.

I personally have a funny feeling I inherited the radiator potentially with damage and a cover up could be under way based on what others with much more experience are telling me but have no chance of proving this I guess, more so sure as no one else seems to have had this experience.

Some pictures attached also that I took and one which dealer has sent:-

Scott
F-pace, 3.0D, AWD, storm grey

 

[Mbadger77]

I'll disagree with everyone else. I do think it's their problem really and perhaps a design fault.
I looked at the grill just last night and the holes are large. I wondered how that was for all the debris and flys etc but they just burn off. Now a big old grill like that must get lots of stone hits and to have that exposed like that puts it into an area that is very grey.
A windscreen is different and I'd accept that's an accident. The wheels comparison isn't anywhere close as that's a driver error and doesn't upset me apart from my driving and the crappy Parking camera.

A real tough one but go to customer services and get on their case and see what you can get as they should at least help in some significant way I think. See how you go at dealers tomorrow and play the sinking coolant and the possible damage before you received.

 

[blackjagmike]

Hey Scott

Was just thinking....

Say when you get to see the radiator and the technician it looks pretty clear it was a stone chip. Based on the fact you have had the car less than 10 days and done 300 miles that stone chip could have occurred driving at ANY stage since its build date- from factory to holding area or on transporter from factory or between compound to garage or on road test etc. I bet you they have had the car from date of build as long as you have. So it was just as likely to be them as you.

I think you have a very strong case and I would take that calmly and politely to the dealer principal and/or Jaguar top brass

All the best.

Mike

 

[scottwatt500]

Cheers folks

I am not really one for an argument, But you are correct and I do have the odometer reading on receipt and fact dealer took delivery on 29/07/16 while I was away working for a month as they told me it was September due date up my sleave. Not really believing I need to use that however but I will most certainly if the still insist it is at my expense.

Hopefully no one else suffers the same fate as myself also, I find it tough to take this can happen with a brand new flagship model. I do agree with post up above that the grill gaps are quite big so surely some sort of mesh should have been considered at design so that issue will be pursued with Jaguar customer relations also.

Wish I was of mechanical mind and the coolant disappearing by 5cm with no leak at that time made sense also, still pushing for an answer on this part of the equation.

Touch wood this mystery does not happen to any other F-Pace drivers, I am very glad I lifted the bonnet when I did rather than going on long drive as I could have caused much greater issue I guess.

 

[The Gman]

Cheers folks

I am not really one for an argument, But you are correct and I do have the odometer reading on receipt and fact dealer took delivery on 29/07/16 while I was away working for a month as they told me it was September due date up my sleave. Not really believing I need to use that however but I will most certainly if the still insist it is at my expense.

Hopefully no one else suffers the same fate as myself also, I find it tough to take this can happen with a brand new flagship model. I do agree with post up above that the grill gaps are quite big so surely some sort of mesh should have been considered at design so that issue will be pursued with Jaguar customer relations also.

Wish I was of mechanical mind and the coolant disappearing by 5cm with no leak at that time made sense also, still pushing for an answer on this part of the equation.

Touch wood this mystery does not happen to any other F-Pace drivers, I am very glad I lifted the bonnet when I did rather than going on long drive as I could have caused much greater issue I guess.

I had a low coolant warning light come on mine and I had put water marks down to run off from the air con, but in my case it was a faulty manufactured header tank so when driving the pressure forced the water out of the orange header tank because the cap and the tank didn't seal properly. I didn't have the amount of obvious coolant you had under the bonnet, have you asked to see the damaged radiator and or the picture?

 

[blackjagmike]

Hey Scott

This isn't about an argument - its about fairness.

I understand some folks like to avoid confrontation this is not an argument its simply about facts - Did a stone chip cause the damage? or was the leak caused by hairline crack in coolant chamber? or cracked thread on coolant lid? or incorrectly fitted hose? etc. These are all common causes of coolant spraying in the engine bay. They need to prove to you the cause cos you want it fixed first time and for all time. Your right to find out why the coolant disappears? Get them to show you on another car what happens when the engine starts? Then after you've identified the cause if its a stone chip they can't prove it did or didn't happen whilst you were driving or when they had it. And by pointing out number of days since build with them v number of days with you. You are adding a great deal of FUD ( fear uncertainty doubt) into the discussion. From there I don't see how they can say its your fault and you must pay, this is why asking to talk to the dealer principal is vital. He will know its vague and should start to offer ££ towards the fix.

I hope it gest sorted to your satisfaction

For another day - it may be the case that the large front grill design means that the FPace rads are prone to leaks caused by stone chips but it will take a lot of miles by a lot of us to find this out with any degree of certainty. For example Porsche 911s Caymans and Boxsters are prone to this by placing 2 small rads at the front of the car under each headlight.

 

[Jagfpacejk]

I'll disagree with everyone else. I do think it's their problem really and perhaps a design fault.
I looked at the grill just last night and the holes are large. I wondered how that was for all the debris and flys etc but they just burn off. Now a big old grill like that must get lots of stone hits and to have that exposed like that puts it into an area that is very grey.
A windscreen is different and I'd accept that's an accident. The wheels comparison isn't anywhere close as that's a driver error and doesn't upset me apart from my driving and the crappy Parking camera.

A real tough one but go to customer services and get on their case and see what you can get as they should at least help in some significant way I think. See how you go at dealers tomorrow and play the sinking coolant and the possible damage before you received.

Was not trying to update you or anger you its just very hard to allow for stones ect, I agree the area in the front grill is large, perhaps there is some sort of retrofit for the car that can be designed?

 

[RaVolVoR]

You could ask for an independent review of the damage, from an AA engineer or similar, get there opinion of the damage, is it stone damage or a manufacturing issue, but you might be putting good money after bad.. As everyone here has suggested the damage could be from any time or any source. I think trying for the good will option and splitting the costs even if you pay for the new rad and they (dealer) provide the free fitting and new coolant etc, they ought to make a goodwill gesture but I'm slowly learning that Jaguar dealers are no better than others at being unsupportive to clients!

I disagree with all arguments that the grill mesh is too coarse, if you make it too fine, it clogs up with dirt very quickly and you can lose cooling efficiency from poor air flow, the balance is not a science it comes down to art and style! I'm a function over form type of person but sometimes form over rules everything unfortunately.

And there really is no difference between a holed rad, a stone damaged windscreen or a chewed tyre. We've all had them (the rad hole less so I expect) and they are the "unexpected costs" of driving, things will fly up and hit your car from the road, from other traffic etc, its really bad luck though. I've had about 28 cars in my life and only had to replace one holed radiator in that time! Doubly unlucky for you given the short time of ownership, get it fixed and get enjoying the car. You could have driven on motorway without checking and trashed the whole engine.... you were incredibly fortunate to notice this!

 

[Shaunyt]

Interesting post i must say and in my opinion just bad luck, the grill design isnt to dissimilar to the rest of the Jag range maybe slightly bigger holes but not much the picture showing the through the grill shot clearly shows an impact of something which the way it has spread looks like its possibly come from the underside cant say it has as not sure if there is a plate under the front section of the car.

I had the grill on a radiator punctured by a stone some years ago but this caused a little damage to the grill also, you might want to check the grill. if no damage you may be able to argue the case was done in manufacture especially if no stone present. Then again if a stone is wedged in there no leg to stand on sorry.

As for bad luck had done approx 75 miles when i got a lovely stone chip in my electrically heated window on one of our so called A class roads second day of ownership, so shit does happen and all i can blame is the british government for crappy A roads. Perhaps thats an avenue to go down as per drivers with knakerd suspension

:roll:

sorry about the bad luck

 

[Mbadger77]

Just to add to this I've checked mine and have two stone damages in under 900 miles

 

[RaVolVoR]

That is worrying... I will.try yo check mine now.

 

[scottwatt500]

Thanks folks, some interesting ideas & pointers.

Dealer has taken this up with customer services today and raised a case as we must be looking at a design flaw sort of idea but dealer is still adamant a stone has done it which I dont believe I thinks its come from factory with some damage based on discussions with a local mechanic I know. still awaiting any feedback from jaguar customer services and if they want to accept any responsibility pick up the repair.

I do agree a stone impact damage is bad luck but to compare it to wheel damage and windscreen is not the same in my eyes, main concerns for me are this has rendered the car Undrivable after 6 days driving only, I find this un acceptable for a model which is meant to be designed in such a way it makes the car even wonderful in offroad confitions where surely loose stones flying would be the norm, surely this cannot be good under any circumstance and if as above seems it may become something others suffer from I cannot see this doing to much for PR's either. The standard of the A class roads in my area are not to bad either in response to a post above the local authority actually do keep them in good condition, all the more food for thought.

To compound my luck I have just been informed there are delays with the new part availability, guess I just need to sit quiet and accept this also as I had to for 11months and others are still doing, One very hacked off driver just now for all the money and faith I decided to put into Jaguar.

Scott

 

[RaVolVoR]

Actually your point on it being an occasional off road vehicle are extremely pertinent, it should cope with stones being kicked up! The result of rad, tyres and screen can be same vehicle out of use but it must handle some environmental abuse?

 

[jonty1625]

Just my 2p's worth - I have had cars with a lot of heavy use mileage on the clock with radiators that looked like they had done two tours of Afghanistan and nothing leaked out of them. The damage from those images looks superficial, the fins as opposed to the channels for the coolant? I would certainly go for a "not fit for purpose" route if a single small (judging by the dent it wasn't half a brick!) stone has caused a major component to fail in such a way. Is the front of the grill or bumper stone chipped in any way? Or was there apparently literally one stone that magically pinged up and caught it? I would go into the dealer and talk loud enough for others to hear without causing a scene, often find a hurried offer of recompense is forthcoming if other customers can hear these sorts of niggles... otherwise contact Jaguar direct and escalate to the Executive Office, quoting unfit for use, poor build quality, etc.... if you don't like confrontation it's sometimes easier over the phone.

 

[jonty1625]

Another point - and maybe totally obvious - but did you open the bonnet BEFORE noticing the issue? I know it is on the grill but as you say there is no obvious leak could it be a loose fitting / cap that splurged out and then was tightened up and (heaven forbid but you never know!) someone closed the bonnet and said "not my problem"? And did they show you the engine bay? Could maybe argue that there is no proof it wasn't done when you took delivery - as I am sure you visual inspection didn't include the radiator.

 

[scottwatt500]

In response to above two posts:-

The Bonnet was opened at same time as issue was noticed on front grill in my drive the day after the car was last driven, no clear point of leak from any obvious pipes spotted but serious amounts of coolant spots all over engine that was fresh coolant, also as stated when accelarator pressed twice in park mode I observed the coolant reservoir suck down by 5cm in level with my own eyes, strange to me that and still pushing dealers for a technical response on why I would observe this as I did not see that 5cm leak out at any point during the accelarator peddle being pressed twice and subsequent visuals. The dealer did show me engine bay on receipt of f-pace one week prior and no coolant spots at that point im afraid but as said before none of us got on our hands and knees and peered through grill to look at radiator for delivery damage.

No marks what so ever observed on front grill, on a quick inspection the car to that point of leak had not one stone chip on any bodywork so thats why im struggling to accept a one in a million small stone can do this to a robust major component on this car.